Although many who have seen the original 1978 Superman might not remember, the film actually opens with a trial on Krypton led by Jor-El (Marlon Brando), during which three traitorous defendants—Terrence Stamp as ringleader General Zod, Jack O’Halloran as the brutish Non, and Sarah Douglas as the intense Ursa—are convicted and sent to the Phantom Zone, a prison-like parallel dimension. Without any real explanation how, the three manage to escape the Phantom Zone at the beginning of the simultaneously shot Superman II (1980), and the three Kryptonian criminals attack Earth right as Superman (Christopher Reeve) sacrifices his powers to start a relationship with Lois Lane (Margot Kidder).
Ursa was a striking villain, partly because of her severe, close-cropped hairstyle and a jumpsuit-style costume that featured slits down the entirety of her long sleeves and pant-legs. But beyond her look, Douglas was a force to be reckoned with in a villain role that matched what her co-star Stamp was pulling off. Before Superman, Douglas had a handful of roles on television and movies, but after playing Ursa twice, she landed roles in seemingly every dramatic television series on during the 1980s and 1990s, as well as film roles in Conan the Destroyer; V: The Final Battle miniseries; The Return of Swamp Thing; Return of the Living Dead III; and a host of other genre films and series for several decades. She even came back the DC universe with an appearance a few years ago on the Supergirl TV series.
Sarah Douglas will be at Emagine Batavia (550 N. Randall Rd., Batavia, IL) for two days this week, hosting special events on October 11-12. The weekend will include a showing of Superman II on Illinois' largest movie screen, the Super EMX, along with a Q&A with Douglas, a special edition poster, and a live auction taking place prior to the film featuring exclusive collectors items including a rare, signed Christopher Reeve autograph and a limited-edition Caped Wonder coffee table book. In addition, on Saturday, October 12, guests will be able to attend a Meet & Greet Autograph Signing and Photo event at Emagine Batavia with Douglas.
I recently got to spend time chatting with Douglas about her experience making the two Superman films; and working with actors like Stamp, Reeve, Gene Hackman, and others. It was a short but informative talk. Please enjoy…
I know that many of the interviews you do about the Superman movies focus on the behind-the-scenes turmoil. I’d like to focus on the character and the shooting of the film. One of the reasons Ursa is so iconic is her look, from the short hair to the costume that has cutout sleeves and pants. How much of the look did you have a say in? Was that how you were wearing your hair at the time, or did they make it look that way for the movie?
Absolutely not. I had long hair. It’s a wig, I’m wearing a wig. My hair was down to chest level, and I the day before, I had completed shooting The People That Time Forgot, which was another great epic with Doug McClure, and in that, you see I actually have an earphone-like hairdo like in Star Wars. But I went from there on Wednesday to Superman on Thursday, and no one ever said “Get your haircut.” That’s what’s so extraordinary, and it would have been so much easier. But as far as the look goes, I have to confess, when you go in very early in the morning and all of the long hair gets put up in pins and then in a stocking cap and then the wig—and that’s only a small part of it—I was in a bit of a pissy mood, and I haven’t even started playing Ursa. So it was a good entry to the day, the wig.
And the costume?
When I went for a costume fitting, that was the first time I saw it. I was not in a position to say anything about it. I was just excited to be there, honestly. I think that part of the costume, which I saw someone describe as being a leather-clad dominatrix—there was no leather! The edges of the costume were sort of PVC, slightly reflective black and red. There are one or two photographs that show it’s more red than black. The rest of the costume was like an organza, so it was very soft. Of course, no one had really considered that I had to wear a harness underneath all of that.
Back in the day when Peter Plan flew across the stage, he wore a great big harness. And up until that point, harnesses covered the chest to the top of the thigh—it was a big contraption. Well that costume didn’t allow for anything, because the slits on the side of my costume went all the way up. So all they could offer me is a little girdle with two hooks on either side, so there was no support on the back, just two hooks on rings on the little thing around my waist, and that way, they just about got away with not showing anything.
But of course, there was no support, so when they pulled me up on the wires, they had to be absolutely sure that I had my balance, which had to be absolutely right. But it would happen often that I would tip over or tip back. It was a killer for me on my back. Today, everybody is going to the gym, but back in 1979-whatever, we didn’t even have a health club for me to go to in London. Chris Reeve was, of course, going and working out, but no one said to me “You better get yourself in shape.” Luckily, I was a 27 year old, and I was keen and fit, and I arrived on the set, but it took a terrific toll on my back because I wasn’t ready for it all.
With you, Terrence Stamp, and Jack O’Halloran, you work as a unit in the film. How much time, if any, did the three of you try to work on your evil dynamic and play off each other?
Firstly, it was the most fun you could ever have. If you knew what a treat it was for a young woman in her mid-20s to working with Terrence Stamp, whom I’d idolized and lusted over, and suddenly every morning, there he was, that was the start of the day, which was marvelous. But there was no preparation. We arrived on the set dressed as we were dressed, and basically there was so much focus on Superman—and remember, we shot the two films back to back—so I saw the first shot that Christopher took on set. I was there from the very beginning, and one of the first things that came together beautifully…and dear Terry Stamp, I mentioned this a few years back at a convention, I gave him full credit for a magnificent idea that he had, although he insisted that it wasn’t his idea, but it was.
He said, “We are from outer space, we are unreal, we come to earth, we have to do something to show that we’re different.” His concept was that the three of us should move together in unison, as one. We never practiced it, but we did it. I use my hands a lot, I’m a klutz, but something came together beautifully from the very beginning, where I managed to be still, and when we moved and worked together, it was as it we were one entity, and I think it gave us a slightly surreal feeling. Plus the fact that we could fly and x-ray eyes was also surreal, but you know what I mean .
Stamp was a known-quantity actor at the time. Getting to work that closely with him at the time, what did you learn from him both as an actor and a human being?
First and foremost, he hadn’t been acting for 7-9 years; he’d been in India in an ashram. He dropped completely out of the whole scene, so when I met him, he was deeply spiritual, a wonderful sense of humor, and just it couldn’t have been more wonderful, but very focused and centered. There was a quietness about him, which he instilled in us, even in Jack, which was a miracle because Jack doesn’t enter room quietly. I certainly learned that from him. Really and truly, it came together beautifully. What he told me, I sadly can’t repeat, because on the set, just before the clapper went in and called action, he’d be telling me a little secret about some gorgeous creatures that he’d dated, whether it be Julie Christie or Jean Shrimpton or whoever it was. And I was soaking it up, and then they’d go “Action!” and I’d never find out.
He was quite wicked in that sense. For all of his spiritualness, he wasn’t adverse to winding me up. He has a wonderful sense of humor, a wicked streak, and he also introduced me to mint tea. I never knew anybody that drank anything other than a good cup of English tea. When we came back to continue filming and a year and a bit later, he was even more relaxed. At the commencement of the film, he was quite intense, focused, quiet, and he still had that later one, but he was a little looser and freer. For him, it was an enormous step to come back to movies. To do something like Superman and dress like we were, he was wonderful.
Christopher Reeve was not an established actor at this point in his career. What are your memories of him finding his footing, assuming he ever did on those first two films?
I don’t think he was ever not in the character on the set. I didn’t really get to see Christopher outside of Superman or Clark Kent; Gene Hackman I got very close to, spent time with, went out in the evening with along with the other actors. But Christopher, when he arrived on the set, even if he had his robe on, if he was Superman, he was Superman. I was certainly, in the early days where we were testing things out, I can remember being amazed how he transformed into Clark Kent, but I also remember very clearly the first time he went to fly as Superman, he had perspired very badly, and Superman doesn’t sweat, so this held production up. These were the sort of ridiculous things back in the day, and they had to go somewhere and figure out a special material that didn’t show sweat. But I had been working very successfully in England and done quite a lot of work from my early 20s, so it was a perfect progression for me.
At the time, when I heard about Superman, we all knew who Superman was, but it wasn’t anything like it was or is now in America. So yes, I knew about him. Was I excited? Not particularly. They said “Would you come in for an audition when you get back from filming?” There were no other films being shot in England; it was an incredibly quiet time. There had been some problem with some union, and it had been very quiet, so I was very excited to be working. And when I went in to meet them at the very beginning, I did really understand the enormity of Superman and the universe. And here we are, how many years later talking about it? I’m going to be in the states at a screening of Superman II, which, for me, to see it on an enormous screening… I mean, I saw in back in 1980, but I was at Lester Square, but it was a regular screen. I believe this one is 96-ft. wide and 53-ft. tall, and I’m going to be able to look at myself and see where the wig fits and where it doesn’t. It’s going to be fantastic. How amazing that all of these years later that people are going to turn up to come and witness that?
When you look at the current superhero film landscape, it has to blow your mind that you are a part of the template that is still being followed to this day. Do you have a sense of pride about that?
I couldn’t be prouder how brilliant it is, particularly in America. Everybody knows Ursa and who I am and connect it with Superman, and to be celebrating it all the years later is beyond fantastic. I’m very proud, and long may it last and people want to see it and talk about it.
Best of luck with the Batavia event. It was lovely meeting you. Thank you so much, Sarah
Thank you very much. Take care.
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